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Adventurer, business woman and world record holder, Victoria Humphries was part of the first all-woman expedition to the North Pole in 1997. Victoria has also climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, she’s run marathons, run businesses and last year when she turned 50 - she embarked on 50@50 – 50 different challenges; some physical, some out of her comfort zone and some to learn new things. 

After we talk about the North Pole and Victoria's other adventures, we talk about what adventure means, about facing fear and self-belief – it was one of the most insightful interviews on the podcast yet.

Talking points include:

• Victoria’s account of the first all-female expedition to the North Pole

• Sharing such an adventure with her mum

• Writing a book about the expedition

• What the reality of the arctic is really like

• A frightening tale of falling into ice water

• Victoria’s 50 challenges at 50

• What adventure means

• Doing things that aren’t in your comfort zone

• The rewards of adventure

• Being an ordinary woman who happens to believe that anything is possible

• Importance of perspective when things go wrong

• Moving through fear rather than fighting it

• The lessons from adventure being more important than the adventures themselves

• How men and women approach adventure

• Why there aren’t more female adventures

• Advice for women who embark on adventures

Transcript

Karla: Hello and welcome to the women's edition, where women share their stories, experiences and challenges. I'm Karla, and each week, I share conversations with women who inform and inspire. We hear the lessons they've learned, their thoughts on social issues and what we can all learn from women's lived experiences.

Hello and welcome to episode three of series two. I can't believe we're halfway through this series already. Thank you so much for listening. I missed an episode last week, because we've all been ill here, but I'm feeling so much better, and I'm so ready to introduce this week's guest.

In this week's episode, I spoke to Victoria Humphreys, adventurer and world record holder. Victoria was part of the first all female expedition to the North Pole in 1997 the expedition involved 20 women making up five relay teams who took part in the 700 kilometer trip from Ward hunt Island in Canada to the North Pole, with each team spending weeks on the ice, hauling sledges of equipment weighing 50 kilos plus, and camping on the ice, all in freezing minus 45 degree temperatures. Victoria replied after seeing an ad in the newspaper, and after telling her mum about it, her mother applied too. They both beat off fierce competition from over 200 other women on a tough Dartmoor selection weekend and were put into the third team going on the ice.

She, along with her mum, Sue also wrote a book about their adventure called frigid women, which is a very compelling and funny read. I highly recommend it. I could not put it down a few months ago when I read it.

Since then, Victoria has also ventured back to the Arctic. She's climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. She's run marathons, run businesses, and last year, she turned 50 and embarked on 50 challenges at 50, some physical some out of her comfort zone, and some just to learn new things. After we talk about the North Pole, I talk to Victoria about what adventure means, about fear and self belief. It was one of the most insightful interviews I've done. Here she is.

I wanted to start by asking, where do you think your adventurous spirit comes from? In an interview with the BBC, you said, I was always brought up to never say no to a challenge. If something's thrown at you, you go for it. Do you think people who take on challenges or adventures have been brought up a little differently or have a certain outlook on life?

Victoria: Good question. I think if you've been brought up like that, there's a good chance that you will have that mentality. But I think it's more than that. It's about being brought up, whether it's at school or home or workplace, where you've actually are encouraged to make mistakes, to try things, to step forward into opportunities, and you therefore practice that feeling of feeling a bit out of your comfort zone, of maybe failing, of things not working, of picking yourself back up again. So it might be parents and upbringing, or it might be your schooling, or it could be experiences with a really good boss who encourages you at work, but I think in order to have that spirit, you need to have practiced it, if that's the right way of describing it, not necessarily practiced adventures, but practiced all the skills that go with it.

Karla: And then I really want to talk about or explore what adventure means to you. To me, it's doing something out of your comfort zone, or maybe something that's a bit exciting and unusual. Would you agree? What does adventure mean to you?

Victoria: Definitely, I think you've hit it completely spot on. Adventure doesn't need to mean going abroad to the rainforest or climbing a mountain or something. Adventure is quite simply stepping out of your comfort zone. Adventure is doing something that you wouldn't normally do, pushing yourself a bit. And actually, funnily enough, I'm doing this thing called 50 or 50 at the moment. So 50 challenges to celebrate being 50, and everyone assumes, probably with my track record, that it's all about big adventures. Actually, the some of the toughest challenges are the ones right close to home, stepping out of my comfort zone, things I have deliberately avoided doing all my life. So an adventure doesn't need to be climbing a mountain, and then we can't do this podcast without talking about your adventures.

Karla: We have to talk about the polar expedition. You were part of the world's first all female expedition to the North Pole in 97 when you went, did you think you'd still be talking about this 20 years later?

Victoria: Absolutely not. And Mum and I still do a lot of motivational speaking after dinner, speaking. And every time we, you know, meet up in the car park before we walk in or in those days pre COVID, when you did it in person, we each other and say, How are we still doing this? And I think we were really lucky. It was. It wasn't a life changing experience in that the whole my whole outlook and life changed, but I definitely changed career. I became primary school teacher. As a result of it, I followed my dreams, but also, I think we've realized, mom and I, we have a deep passion, a deep belief that the more people we can inspire to take that one step, walk through that open door, take the opportunity to have their own adventure. If each time we speak, we inspire one person to do it, then that's that's our mission, done, definitely.

Karla: And could you, just in case people haven't heard of it? I can't imagine they haven't, but could you just tell people a little bit about it briefly?

Victoria: Yes. So we were, as you say, part of the first all female expedition to the North Pole. So to give a bit of context, pre 1997 only two women had ever been to the North Pole. One of them had flown in for a photo shoot, and the other one had gone with dog sleds, so hadn't walked to the North Pole. And so the whole point of our expedition was to become the first women in the world to walk to the North Pole. So that was the kind of the pretext, and it was deliberately advertised as looking for women with no prior experience. Well, no one did really have any prior experience. But also they were looking for ordinary women rather than Super Fit military type people. They wanted normal women to show that normal women can do everything. So that was the kind of selection criteria, really. And obviously you had to have the right mental attitude and ability to get physically fit. And then once we were up on the ice, we had real problems trying to get sponsorship.

So the original plan had been for just one team of women to walk the whole 650 miles, or 650 miles, as the crow flies. But sponsorship was proving impossible, and no one believed we could actually achieve it. And also, women were finding it really difficult to be given time off work for that long a period. So it was broken down into a relay. So each leg there were five legs of the expedition, and each leg walked X amount of time on the ice. So we trained for roughly three weeks beforehand on the ice, then we walked North just under four weeks. And then each and two teams after us, there were five teams in total. And then end of May 1997 the final team did get to the North Pole.

We're in the Guinness Book of Records, which is amazing. It's something I'm really, really proud of, and I've got the certificate. And like everyone, you hang those certificates along with Oscars, BAFTA, or is in your downstairs Lou, so that's where my certificates hanging. And yeah, and we wrote mum and I wrote a book. We got invited to Downing Street. We were voted Women of the Year. So things like that were really pretty amazing. But as I say, for me, the biggest impact was we realized the impact we could have on other people, and that's been the most rewarding element of it,

Karla: Absolutely incredible. It was really good book. Actually, you and your mum, your writing really complimented each other.

Victoria: Well, I think we kind of banter off each other, just, you know, as we do in real life, and as we did up in the Arctic, and as we do in our talks, I suppose it's, it's, yeah, mum will say one thing, and I'm like, That's a load of rubbish. I don't believe that, or I'm not feeling that. And she has this really, really annoying habit of always being 10 out of 10. You know, someone says, how are you? Oh, I'm fine, 10 out of 10. And I'm like, you can't be it's a pretty horrible day. You cannot be 10 out of 10. It's just not possible. And it drives me mad. It drives all of the family mad. She's always like that.

Karla: That's hilarious. I was going to ask you about your mum, because you and your mum applied, and you both got selected. Could you talk us through what that was like to do such a remarkable challenge, but with your mum?

Victoria: No, I always say that she gate crashed my party because I was the one who applied. And when I rang her up to tell her, guess what I'm doing, she was like, Yeah, I'm gonna come too. And oh, all right, then. But um, actually, of course, I, you know, we're incredibly close, and I would never have anyone different. And she had a really good reason for applying. I just applied because I wanted the opportunity. And thought, why not? But she'd literally a few weeks previously been diagnosed with breast cancer, had had a mastectomy, and this was her way of saying, cancer is not going to beat me. So for her, there was a really big, genuine reason to do the. Expedition.

Once we got down to the selection weekend, or the first selection weekend in Dartmoor, it was clear to absolutely everyone that even though mum had never camped in her life, did not have any experience of kind of uncomfortable situations. She was very outdoorsy. But my God, she's as strong as an ox, mentally and physically, and so there was no doubt that she was going to be chosen. I was more worried that I wouldn't get chosen, because I, you know, I knew I was up there, but I didn't know if I was in the top 20.

She's amazing, and to have done it with, I mean, when we were up on the ice, you know, a different kind of area. So Mum was slot one, and I was slot four, and we always, I said good night to her, and I called her mum. But we didn't lie in bed chatting like a mother and daughter might do or something. And on the ice, yes, we may have walked together because we were similar speed, but we didn't, I don't think, well, I know we weren't too mumsy and Daughtery, because the other teammates have said that they were really worried about being with us, but actually it was fine. So to share an opportunity like that, to share an adventure like that with her, is is just the most amazing thing, and that can never be taken away from us. We were close before, but we were now. We're now even closer.

Karla: Once you're on the ice, what was it like? Were there times where it was a case of mind over matter. The part of the book that sticks out in my head is the part where you and your mum fell in, and then the few days after that, could you talk to us about that?

Victoria: So the Arctic is not what everyone imagines. Everyone imagines it’s kind of flat and white and very straightforward. And you know, cold, is what everyone thinks is the biggest problem up there. And they all just imagine you ski off heading north the cold. Yes, it's flipping freezing. It's kind of minus 40 ish quite often, with the wind chill making it even colder. But the cold isn't the issue, it's the condition.

So the ice is very, very, very rough. It's made up of loads of ice flows all held together so you don't notice you're walking on different ice flows. But for some reason, the pressure might be released because the current or just general ice movement. And there can be a gunshot sound, and the ice, literally in front of you, will crack and split apart. And this, you get these rivers of open water, and equally, the ice crashes back together again. And you get these, what are called Pressure ridges. These kind of mini mountains just appear in front of your eyes. It could be 3040, foot high. And so you're constantly having to navigate this ever changing landscape. You can't navigate using taking bearings on something, because nothing is constant, a bit of ice that's in front of you at the moment two minutes later, might be to your left or to your right as it's moving.

So you got this beautiful, wonderfully, beautiful landscape, but ever changing, and all the mental challenge that comes with that. But then, as you know, as you said, at one point, the ice underneath mum, she was walking in front of me or skiing in front of me, and two seconds later, she wasn't in front of me, and the ice had opened up underneath us, and she had just dropped into the ocean, fully dressed with skis, attached, boots, attached, sledge attached and so on. So, you know that was life or death at that point, I leant on my sledge to try and get her, and the ice opened up underneath my sledge too, so my sledge toppled, and I also fell in the water. So you have both of us swimming in the Arctic, fully dressed in our normal clothes for about eight minutes.

Eventually, we did get to, well, what we call dry land, but obviously it's it's ice, but you have no spare clothing in the Arctic. You are you just have one one snow suit. That's it. You might have two pairs of glass, one thick, one thin, and two or three different hats, depending on the different conditions, but your main clothing, you've just got one outfit, because you don't want to carry extra weight. So we were soaking wet. Had lost loads of our equipment, and at that point, it quite literally, was life or death. And I think that was a really defining moment for me in my life, going back to what I said earlier about perspective. It's given me a much better sense of, well, in the scale of thing, you know, one to 10, how bad is whatever I'm facing at the moment compared to what I was facing up in the Arctic. So we were lucky. We did manage to, well, we never fully dried off each day, our suits kind of were still wet and were not wet, but they were sticky, wet and kind of very uncomfortable to walk in. We managed to rescue not all the equipment, but most the equipment. But it made the next week of the Arctic expedition very, very difficult. Mentally, you were very much more scared, any confidence you felt and any love you felt for the arc that disappeared instantly it came back, but for those few days after the accident, it was really, really challenging. But that's I still that was an unusual situation. And you know, yes, it was life or death, but it was unusual, not totally unusual, but relatively uncommon. And it hasn't taken away my love of the arctic, definitely not.

Karla: Wow. That's incredible. And what was it like being in an all female team out there? Like, did you notice men being absent? Or did it just feel quite normal?

Victoria: Interesting. Good questions. So on that expedition, I, you know, we were just there as a bunch of women. And yes, we knew the women. The first women bit was obviously a driver, but day to day didn't really make any difference. I went back the following year with it, with a girlfriend, and so that was again, all female.

But then two years later, I went back, and that was on a mixed expedition, and it was interesting. There was definitely a different approach to how men and women kind of live and work, and that the kind of the character in the tent was different, not in a bad way, but it was just, you know, it's like when you go on a girls holiday versus a mixed holiday. So there was, it was neither was better than the other, definitely, you know, it was girls together can get quite bitchy. Boys together can get quite testosteroney, you know. So there were, neither trip was better than the other, but it was definitely different dynamics on the mixed trip to what it was on the two in two female trips.

Karla: And I was gonna ask you, you're, I think you're around the same age now as your mum when she took part, if the same opportunity arose. Now, would you go.

Victoria: Yes, definitely. And I'm always on the lookout. Actually, whenever I do my talks, I always say, if anyone wants to sponsor me, feel free. So yeah, I would love to. I've got, I would love to go back up to the Arctic. I don't want to do the whole 650 miles, but I'd love to do the last 200 or the last 200 likewise, I'd love to go to the South Pole, but I don't have any particular desire to do the whole long distance. Yeah, I'd love to just do a short version. Yeah, no. I've got lots of dreams of opportunities I'd love to do. So, yeah, if anyone listening wants to sponsor me, feel free to get in touch.

Karla: Brilliant. Which leads us to one of your latest challenges, which is what you talked about earlier, the 50 challenges to mark your 50th birthday. Now, most people, when they reach 50 would probably do like a nice spa break or maybe a hotel stay. Why was it important to you to do the 50 challenges to mark the occasion?

Victoria: I think the original idea probably over a bottle of wine type idea, I suspect. But quite quickly, I realized that I was I was becoming more boring. I mean, my friends probably wouldn't say that, because they, as I say, they still think I'm a bit crazy, but I felt I was becoming a bit of a bit more of a no than a yes person.

So originally, it was, let's do 50 exciting challenges, and I realised all of them fell within my comfort zone. So for example, I climbed Kilimanjaro last year as one of my challenges, and yes, it's difficult to climb it, but actually that was a really easy challenge because it's completely within my comfort zone. So I realised quite early on that actually the purpose of this 50 at 50 was about doing stuff that is not in my comfort zone. So a couple of ones that were due to happen, but because of COVID, didn't. So I'm mighty relieved at the moment. One of them was to pose nude for Life Class. And that just, I'm not particularly body confident, so the thought of doing that just makes me want to curl up in a ball. And then the second one was, you know, I do loads of public speaking. I love acting, but someone said you ought to do, you know, comedy, virtual comedy show, you know, do one of those um, 10 minute skits and a comedy night. That scares me rigid. And so immediately I want to say no, but actually the whole point of 50 at 50 is to say yes. So I'm secretly hoping that COVID will put it off as long as possible, but I think I'm not going to be able to put it off for much longer, so I am going to have to sort that one out.

Karla: Oh, they sound so scary. And how many have you done so far? I know COVID Probably scuppered some plans.

Victoria: Yeah, it's definitely scuppered a lot of it. So I've completed, I think 22 or 23 I've got seven or eight ongoing. So actually, next week, mum and I have been walking from home to home. So they're up in Shropshire. I'm in Bath, so we're walking literally from her back door to my back door. And we got almost, well, we got down very near the seven bridge before COVID hit. So we're nearly there. So we're looking to do the last. It in the next couple of weeks. So those kind of ones I've still got ongoing, but I do need to now find the remaining ones, but I it's not going to happen within two years. I mean, that's an example of goal post changing. My original name was to have done them all by this coming September, but it's I realistically it's going to be another couple of years before I've done them all,

Karla: I did some research for this podcast, and in so many interviews, you said you're an ordinary woman who happens to believe that anything is possible with so many adventures and challenges under your belt, do you still see yourself as ordinary?

Victoria: I genuinely do. Yes. I think my friends think I'm barking mad, but I don't think of myself as a hardcore adventurer, Explorer. I genuinely don't think myself as anything special. I just think my brain is maybe wired a bit differently, or I was brought up a bit differently, and I'm not scared. No, I am scared. I get scared every time I do something different, but I'm not scared of being scared. I still like my electric blanket, I still like a glass of wine, I still like my home comforts. I'm not a wild adventurer, definitely not. I do think I'm normal ish, but yeah, because I think self belief is so important when it comes to adventure and challenges.

Karla: Do you think that? Do you think it's at the heart of adventure, or maybe even just overcoming challenges in everyday life is all about what you feel about yourself?

Victoria: Yes, it's soft belief, but I think there's an element before that, and I think it's, for me, it's about perspective, so you can believe in yourself and you can set yourself a releasing goal. But actually, if you've not prepared or realised that there will be lumps and bumps along the way, things will go wrong. You will fall over the goal post. Will have to change whatever it is things will go wrong. And doesn't matter how much self belief you've got, or however brilliant your goal is, if you don't have that sense of perspective or that realisation that no journey is straightforward, you're setting yourself up to fail. So for me, the perspective comes first, and the reality, not in a not in a pessimistic way, but the perspective and the reality. And then you get so much more self belief, because you're not worried when something goes wrong.

Karla: You touched on there about fear, and I was going to talk to you about fear of failure, because in your book, there was quite a lot about that, and I thought maybe that might put people off adventure, this fear of failing at something you've never done before. So what pushes you through that fear? How could, how could people maybe reframe it and push, push through and do an adventure themselves?

Victoria: I mean that fear. I feel that fear daily, weekly. You know, whenever something difficult, you know, I'm setting up a new business at the moment, and I feel fear regularly. What if it doesn't work? What if I don't earn enough money to pay the mortgage, etc, etc, and on, you know, up in the Arctic, we were faced with fear every day. So I think it's again, it goes back to that thing of perspective and recognising that you will FEAR, fear. You will feel fear. But if you take just one tiny step and think, actually, okay, there's a big scary thing in front of me, but let me just do a little tip toe. Let me do another tip toe. Let me do another tip toe before you really before you know it, you've actually progressed. And so I think fear is completely genuine, and I feel fear a lot, but it's about what you do with fear. Do you fight it which isn't really me, or do you just gently move towards it and suddenly that fear disappears or moves or changes.

Karla: And then I wanted to talk about motivation, like, what spurs you want to do your challenges, say, like climbing Mount Kilimanjaro or running multiple marathons, what? What's your intrinsic motivation for those things?

Victoria: It's partly, you know, pride when you've done something difficult. Clearly that that that's one driver. I think it's also I'm driven. I'm more motivated if I've got a goal. So with my running, I tend to need a goal at the end in order to give me that kick, not to avoid going running, because I enjoy running. But equally, I hate running if I've got a if I've got an end goal, then it will motivate me. Also, there's something about people saying you can't do it, and maybe I'm a bit bloody minded, and I'm like, Well, of course I can, but it's not about doing something that's dangerous. I have no desire to do danger. I mean. People will say the artic was dangerous. It is, but it's a it's not as dangerous as you imagine. It's difficult, very difficult, mentally, but it's not as dangerous as you think.

I think it's a combination of things that spurs me on, partly pride, partly proving people wrong, and partly that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. I mean, obviously the Arctic is a very specific one to talk but generally, the bit I enjoy talking about, and hopefully, as I say, motivating people, is, is the lessons that I take from the adventures rather than the adventures themselves. So it is. It's that one step at a tough thing. So for example, I literally will start going for a run, and within a mile, I'm like, oh, it's raining. Should I do a shortcut? Or, Oh, I obviously didn't eat a proper supper last night. I won't be able to do the 10 miles. Let's just do six miles. And I'm constantly making excuses to give up. And so I fight myself by saying, well, just run to the next field or the next gate post or the next street or whatever it is, and see how you feel then, and then see how you feel the next one, and before you know it, you've run 1015, 20 miles. And so I think it's those kind of lessons, rather than the adventures themselves.

Karla: The really important bit I've noticed with a lot of the women I talk to on this series, too, about adventure, there's this like thread that continues throughout their lives. They seem to be adventurous in every aspect of their lives, because you after the Arctic, you ran, like, motivational workshops, personal development courses, and you've ventured into public speaking, which I absolutely hate doing. So if you've got any pointers there, much appreciated. Do you think that's, do you think that's a sort of an element to people doing bigger adventures that their, their day to day lives are quite adventurous?

Victoria: I think it may be is perceived as adventurous, but I see it as always exploring opportunities. And so if someone says to me, Oh, I will say, for example, I got an email from someone today who was just randomly talking in, you know, causation between us, and she's I know a group of people who are doing a relay swim across the channel. Does that appeal to you? And I'm like, Yes, and so my instinct is not just to say yes, but is actually to sign on the dotted line as quickly as I can before I run away, because if I can cop out, then I probably will. So the sooner you kind of sign up to something the better.

I think the same applies in business. I was offered the opportunity to lead the business I was in the senior team, managing director left. I didn't even contemplate putting myself forward for the role of MD, but I was asked if I wanted to do it all my instincts said you can't do it. You're not capable, you're not experienced, but the biggest instinct that drives me is walk through that door. The worst thing that can happen is you make a failure and you lose your job. Okay, that's quite drastic, but if you don't try something, you'll never succeed.

Karla: Definitely, that. I interviewed lots of female entrepreneurs for the series one, and there seemed to be this thread going between going through them, that there was just this perseverance, that they were going, they were going to do it, that there was no there was fear there. But they said, you know, if you don't think you're going to do it, you never will.

Victoria: You have to have that kind of inner belief, yeah, and you've got to be prepared to fall over. You've got to be prepared for things to go wrong. You've got to be prepared to maybe make a mistake. I mean, I know, running the business, I know I was a pretty good MD, but my goodness, I know I also did a lot of stuff that wasn't great, and I've communicated things wrong, or I may have said the wrong thing or made a motion, but as long as the majority of the time moving in the right direction, no one's perfect. You know, even the people we all look up to as role models, they're not going to have been perfect. They're all going to make decisions that are wrong along the way, when you made that wrong decision, and how you manage it, that's almost more important, definitely.

Karla: And then moving on, I wanted to talk about adventurous women, because in a quote from your book, frigid women, and I can't actually remember if it was you or your mum that said this, but it says men like to conquer, fight or subdue the Arctic, well, we had a different attitude. We felt that we had to go along with what we were faced with, we tried to have the Arctic on our side instead of confronting it. And I wanted to ask whether you think there's still a difference between the way men and women face adventure?

Victoria: Definitely, and not just adventure, but I think life now. I appreciate this comment. You know, my opinion, it could be it's quite generalist, generalised. And not everyone will fit into category A or Category B, but I, if you use the Arctic as an analogy, definitely men kind of, kind of almost attack the challenges more physically, whereas tend to look at a challenge more mentally and analyse it and work it out. And that is a completely generalised comment, but that is more what tends to happen. And I think it tends to happen in life. Sometimes I do believe, and you know, evidence shows it that women have more emotional intelligence than men, and that's not a criticism, that's just a way it is. And therefore, I think women approach problems, challenges, certainly anything involving people in a different way to how men do it. Not to say one on their own is right, but I do think you need a blended approach of both. You need to get the right approach definitely.

Karla: And why do you think there aren't more female adventurers?

Victoria: If you if you look at the kind of role models, I mean, there's more and more now, definitely there's the amazing girl, I think she's called Jasmine, who's the youngest girl to row across the Atlantic. I'm completely in awe of her. At the age of 18 or 19, I think she is, and she took part in rowing Atlantic challenge. You ought to get her on your podcast. Actually, she'd be brilliant. So I think there are more and more people now, but I think it was role models, and going back in time a bit, and even it affected us was the society permitting, allowing women. So when it came to us, raising sponsorship really big blue chip companies very blatantly said to us, we don't believe you can succeed at this expedition, so we won't sponsor you. Nothing to do with we don't have the funds, or we don't believe in the message it was. We don't believe you women can do this. And even when we're up in the Arctic, the general consensus amongst the locals up on resolute Bay when we first arrived was, Oh, God, these guys will never succeed.

By the end, they absolutely believed and supported us, because they could see how we were good at what we were all doing. So I think it's a combination of role models of society and also there is an element of practicality, especially women in their 20s and 30s and maybe even 40s. You know, if you've got young families and you are the person who stays at home looking after children, it's much harder to take three months off and go down to Antarctica or climb Everest, or even to get time to do the training. So I think there's that element as well.

Karla: Yeah, and having a toddler, I don't think I could.

Victoria: Even training, if you think about Imagine if you had the expedition, is almost the easy bit. It's finding the time to train. I mean, I remember when I was doing one of my marathons, my husband, he was he's a camera man, and he was away all over the world a lot. I used to have to pay a babysitter to come for three hours while I went for my really long training runs to look after my son. Now, I was lucky. I was working so I could afford a babysitter, but if you're not working and you can't afford a babysitter, you can't just leave your child on their own while you do those kind of things.

Karla: So I think that that does play a large part, and that kind of ties into my next question, which was, what advice would you give to women who maybe have an adventure or a challenge in the back of their minds, but they haven't quite got around to doing it yet?

Victoria: If you know that you are able to get that time off to do it, to do the actual expedition, sign up. Don't even think about it. Just sign up, because otherwise you'll keep on finding an excuse to put it off financial time, whatever it is, you'll find the excuse to sign up. That's my golden rule. I sign up to something as soon as I can, and then I know I can't back out, and then I think it's about there is always a way around it. So for training run, maybe you have to find a different time to do it, or especially now with flexible working, say to your boss, can I do my training run at this time and I'll work in the evening? You know, doesn't really matter what it is, but there are always ways around it, but it's far more difficult find the solution for women. But I think my golden rule would be sign up first, because once you've signed up, you will find a way. You just will because you've got that drive and desire and passion to do it amazing.

Karla: That's what happened to me with the podcast. I put it all on social media that I was starting a podcast, and then I couldn't back out. Yeah, that's the other thing.

Victoria: Actually, you're right. Tell as many people as you can, because then everyone, every time they see you, will say, Oh, how's it going? And you're like, oh, gosh, I need to do it. So, yeah, tell as many people as you can.

Karla: Oh, thank you so much, Victoria for coming on. This has been really illuminating.

Victoria: I've loved it. It's great. You've asked some really good questions, actually. Thank you.

Karla: Thanks so much to Victoria for coming on the podcast. She was so insightful and down to earth with all of her adventures. I think she's right. Though you really do have to say you're going to go do something and then do it, no matter what the fear is. That's how this podcast came into being, and I love it. If you'd like a funny and captivating read, I could not put that book down. So please go and read frigid women. It's very refreshing to read an adventure from a woman's perspective. And I will see you all next week.